This may wake the forum up ...

You know what folks?

I've been reading this forum in its' present & previous guises, I've listened to talk of who owns what & who is responsible to whom, & observed the emergence of the Junta de Vecinos. I've come to the following conclusion.

This is all FANTASTIC news for Louise & I because sometime in the future we are planning to buy some further property in Costambar & all this "discussion" only serves to keep property prices low.

GREAT!

Keep it up folks!

Just hope you never have to sell any property here because while all this is happening nobody is going to win - except maybe the real estate agents & lawyers ....

I don’t know the exact year that Vallarino bought and took over the project from Camps, but I think it was in 1997 ( I might be wrong - I am not sure).
Meanwhile I actually believe that they didn’t know exactly, what they got themselves into, because at that time the project was already in a very bad shape and the bad things actually happened during the times with Camps. The bad water supply, garbage fields inside Costambar, corrupted and bad security = that was all during the times with Camps.
APC was also created a long time before that.

Work together sounds always very nice! The question is how?
APC expects Vallarino to pay fees for his properties, but you can also try to see things from another side.
Officially Costa de Ambar is the developer/owner and founder of the project. ANY authority in this country has ALWAYS agreed on that. I remember the problems we had sometimes to get along with some authorities, because they always said, that we should talk to the owner of Costambar.. It always made me mad, but I heard it again and again.

APC is NOT the owner of Costambar, although APC is an Association for the rest of the property owners to protect their interests inside a project, which - apart of our private houses and a percentage of the green areas - belongs to Costa de Ambar.
Why would they pay to an Association like APC?
They are supposed to take care of their property and that is what they have started to do
(I hope and believe!).

APC has kept Costambar “alive” for the last ten years + and I am sure that even Vallarino knows that. Costambar is still in a bad shape, but it is obvious that without APC there would have been nothing left.
However APC has always been a fight. A fight between personalities, a fight with property owners, who don’t accept APC as an authority in Costambar. A fight with the official authorities, who never really respected APC either.
Personally I don’t believe that APC can continue much longer acting as a “legal” authority in Costambar. I still believe that APC can act as an Association protecting the interests of the owners in Costambar - but only that!

A new problem is added lately: La Junta de Vecinos (Neighborhood Association). Sandra Asilis has written about it to the mail group and I asked about this on this forum a while ago and nobody seams to bother.
This is a MAJOR problem for APC, because now APC is degraded to the third place in authority, after Costa de Ambar and The Neighborhood Association. They have BOTH much more power than APC will ever get.

This is - off course - my personal opinion !

Annette:

Nothing I said was critical of Eddy Vallarino's building of the wall as being against our interest. I'm all for the wall, just as you are. My comment was why, from his perspective, would he do it when it adds no value to his property and why would the vendedores support it when it cuts out parking spaces? As I said I won't even try to rationalize those two issues.

I can see he is doing improvements which would add value. But why does he refuse to co-operate with the rest of us who own property and have the same interests. You may have read Yash's post. He is paying seperately to dump his garbage, and Yash suspects, picking up garbage from other people who don't pay. You know as well as anyone how he works against the property owners organzation. We had to take over the maintenance because he closed his doors and left us with the problem. Working with us would benefit everyone, and I remain confounded that he continues to refuse to cooperate, when this project has been a financial drain on him - not us.

I actually heard that the “Neighborhood/Beach Vendor Association” had claimed that they want to take over the gate . I don’t know if this is true?

The wall, that Mr. Vallarino is going to build along the beach is great. Why always be so critical talking about Costa de Ambar?
If they want to promote their properties it is logical that they are interested in having a nice beach! Costambar is supposed to be a beach located project and how can you sell properties in a beach project with a disgusting beach?
Vallarino has obtained a permit to build a wall at the beach and apparently they also came to an understanding with the beach vendors - two things that APC never was able to obtain. And so what? The most important thing is, that things are getting done - to the benefit of ALL of us.

Part of Costambar is really looking so much nicer than ever before. I have NEVER seen the Golf Course and the surroundings nicer than now.
And all the palm trees that Vallarino planted along the entrance road and the fence - it is very nice looking!
They have spent a lot of money in Costambar lately.
I think we all benefit from this! Why not be happy about it and say Thank you, thank you and thank you? Be nice and get the best out of the situation please! This would be to the best of Costambar at least.

1. I spoke with Sandro Falla concerning the suggestion Mark put forward. He said, in effect, that was how they had intended it to be applied. Bethania is making a list of the people who have the signs, assuming that all dues payers will want a sign. The fee charged is just to recover the costs of making them yet the service is an added value. The staff is not likely to be so rude and to just say “You don’t pay. You don’t anything”. They may say “We are unable to help you” or something like that. Dominicans are polite people. The security staff may in the case of a “real and present danger” take action, but that is only out of a sense of conscience, not because they have any legal obligation. Jack Cameron and Sandro Falla are experienced businessmen, and know how to deal with difficult clients.
2. Recently the vendedores association served a letter on APC accusing us of keeping people from going to the beach. That is not true although there are certainly fewer people using the beach as they did several years ago. Maybe there are more inviting beaches, or the economy is too rough. They have been invited to watch at the gate and see for themselves that people are not being turned away who would be potential clients. For some reason this is another local group that, with the exception of three businesses, only see life here only in terms of confrontation.
3. Ing Eddy Vallarino (Costa de Ambar S.A.) is paying to build a low wall from the tennis club in a westerly direction. Several years ago we were stopped by the Marina de Guerra from doing just this because it prevented emergency vehicles from having access to the beach. This will have the effect of reducing the parking spaces by about 50 cars. It is my understanding he discussed this with Fredrico the President of the vendedores and received his blessing. What I can’t understand is (a) why Sr. Vallerino thinks this cost would add anything to the value of his properties, and (b) why the vendedores would approve of a plan that reduces the number of people who could park and come to their businesses. (Ref point 2 above)

There are mysteries here that are sent to try our analytical skills to the limit, but I think I’ll pass on those two.

“Amigos de Costambar” and a sign for 200 pesos and then the attention is supposed to be better?
Not that 200 pesos is a lot of money (I know that), but as far as I understand most of the money paid as fees by the residents is already used for security and therefore the paying residents has the right to receive attentions.
Or you mean that only the people paying extra 200 pesos for a sign should receive attention ? That doesn’t sound fair to me.
Maybe I don’t have enough information about this issue and therefore it sounds weird to me!
And in case that most of the residents would buy a sign, the list for the security staff would be very long and I still don’t believe they can handle a list in a proper way! But I might be wrong off course.
(It is not my intention to turn down all ideas, however I think it is necessary to be realistic!)

Over the years, even before Sandro really put things in order, Claudia and I routinely received many calls from people requesting us to assist them getting support from security. Naturally both of us are well known to the staff. Not once has the present group of secuirty gaurds failed to deliver good service, but a few times in the past I have been disappointed. Generally the service has been there for a long time. Annette knows just how bad my Spanish is, but I have never had a problem making the situation clear for them to take action. I really don't think the criticsm I hear, and there is a lot of it, is totally justified. Mark's suggestion could work and to my mind it is worth a try.

As to the alarms I think we would have to make a proposal to the present Board, and at this moment I don't think there enough Board members present to obtain a quorum. Ron Moran and I are still checking the accounts and signing checks. I still make the deposits and discuss them with Ron as it relates to our financial situation. So my suggestion might be to discuss this and jointly prepare a proposal, then submit it late in November or December, when there are sufficient people present for the Board to make a decision.

Annette

Simple solution to that problem - the "Amigos De Costambar" placas.

And PROPER explaination of the benefits of having one.

RD200 is a whole lot less than what you'd have to pay the Policia Nacional to respond as fast as our APC guards can!

Just a comment to Gymbar:
You write about a list of payers should be handed over to the guards and only the paying people should receive help. It sounds very easy, however I know it is not!
Have you ever called the gate because of a problem or an incident? I have and my experience has ALWAYS been very bad. They don’t know how to answer a phone and even though my Spanish is very good I ALWAYS had to explain five times, who I am and what my problem is and even then they often don’t quite understand. I am asked to wait and somebody else is coming on the phone and I have to explain everything again!
They don’t know the street names and it takes ages to explain where my particularly street is.
I mean if somebody really wanted to kill me I would have been dead ten times!
Sorry that I am so negative, but you need another kind of people working at security if you want them to understand any kind of lists - sad, but thru.
They have to know you personally or they get confused… When I “worked” on the APC Board I just said “I am Anette from APC” and they came running. I guess because they thought “woow I loose my job if I don’t run now”.
It is difficult, VERY difficult and ANY board member having the job as Security Supervisor is having a HART time dealing with the employees and I don’t think it is easier now than a few years ago.
Therefore I suggest another kind of security with less (and maybe better) manpower, but higher walls.
Even the guy at the green gate is letting EVERYBODY in and out, although I am sure he was told a hundred times to ask for an ID card.

If the wall is high enough I actually believe it would help a lot.
Unfortunately Aida has left, but our plans were to talk to San Felipe again ( we already did last year) and we talked to them about making a fence to close off the street outside Costambar near the plant . In this way it is more difficult for the people to come this way, although they can still arrive by boat off course.
I understand that APC is having quite a number of security guards and why not post a guard at that little beach, where the people arrive by boat ?
There is also the possibility to talk to the owners living close to this place to organize some kind of a fence closing off that beach and a little guard house at that spot perhaps..
In the other end of Costambar (where the walking path was supposed to be) at least 200 meters of wall is missing and everybody can walk right into Costambar.
The good news is, that Los Mangos has realized how huge this problem is and they have started to take care of that area. (Maybe they got tired of my constant complaints and insisting discussions!) They have the land title of the land along the river and they are working on getting the people moved, who build some small houses along the river behind Lóase. ( It is going to take a while for sure) Once these people have been removed the path can be restricted and controlled and the 200 meter of missing wall wouldn’t be so important any longer. Right now they are working cleaning the land along the path to avoid more people invading the land and they have placed signs saying “Private Property” and I have realized that less people are using this path to get into Costambar, which is good for all of us.
Building a higher wall and controlling both ends of Costambar I really believe it would help a lot.
Personally I feel quite safe in my home, because I have a high wall around my property and additionally bars in front of my lower windows. Furthermore I have European windows with double glass and security locks and they are impossible to open from the outside.
We all have to do our best to secure our homes no matter where we live. If you feel safe with an alarm it is fine - I just don’t believe that APC is able to control an alarm system in general.
The green areas are important also for security reasons. The grass is again higher than ever and again I will have to pay a worker separately to clean some empty lots around my property, because this job is not done properly by APC. High grass is a very good hiding place for thieves and other bad things. Many residents simply don’t care what is going on next to their homes and use the empty lots for garbage and cuttings, which is a very bad habit! Maintaining the green areas is also part of a good security!

I supported the wall with money the first time and probably would again, however I agree with Mark that making the wall higher does not solve the security problem. Down by the Ocean end of Costambar that whole point is wide open and there is no way of putting in a wall, anyone can come in by boat and they have.
The security guards along with police and all of them being mobile and available to be reached by radio and phone is most likely our best protection. I have had an alarm in the States for years with an alarm company monitoring it, and I have had an alarm in Costambar for a few years, it rings to my cellphone and one of my helps cellphone I can pick-up the phone and call the gate but a local person or company would be so much better. I know it is not the answer to everything, one can have "false alarms" that is a big pain in the neck, you are right there Annette.
Thanks to Sandro and the increased vigilance of guards, police and security committee we have things available to us we did not have before it behooves us to look at the whole security issue with a new approach.

I recall during the discussions, if you want to call them that, being told that APC had no responsibility for security. I maintain APC does and has always has had that responsibilty as one of our top priorities. The office can be used to moniter without breaching any arms length appearances. We pay Mark Gill (an ex President) rent, and Codtel for phone services, so what's wrong with the office being a command post for security. I think it already is.

As to the idea of the wall. I have no comment, and if someone wants to "carry the ball" on that one I'll support them. I just think we would get "a better bang for the buck" from an alarm response system.

Annette

I personally think that building a higher wall won't solve many problems. Generally speaking serious crime - home invasions, murders etc. - is an inside job. I spoke to the police about the recent incidents & they agree with this opinion. There are many rental properties in Costambar & it is impossible to stop anybody, nice or otherwise, who will pay from moving into town. The scumbags are already here!

All this talk of alarms & walls has rather distracted from the initial thrust of this thread, namely how difficult would it be for the gate to have a master list of payers so ONLY those who pay receive help from the gate in case of a crime occuring?

NO PAY - NO PLAY!

I remember the discussions about the alarm system a few years ago. I also remember that the biggest concern was actually the responsibility that APC would have in case such system would be monitored by APC.
We agreed we had enough problems already and to control an alarm system from the office wouldn’t be that easy with the kind of employees that APC has and the responsibility is huge.
I know very little about alarm systems, but I remember very well a few years ago my neighbor Marion Harsman installed such a system and then she left for the summer.
This alarm was really driving us crazy, because it started often in the middle of the night and kept going for hours. It stopped after a looooong while for maybe 10 minutes and then it started again. The whole night through and we were not happy at all !
Many years ago I also lived for some months in Los Caobos here in Costambar and we had an alarm. This alarm constantly kept going when the curtains moved a little and in the end we stopped using the alarm, because nobody pays attention anyway if the alarm constantly goes on.
I have very negative experiences with alarms, but maybe things have changed.

There is one thing I don’t understand: Why not build a wall, high enough, around the WHOLE area of Costambar. As it is now there are too many places the people can use to get into Costambar and in my opinion it is a waste of money to pay for more and more security people, because the people can get in anywhere..
Aida has suggested this a number of times and she was right. Close Costambar all the way around and the issue Security would be much easier to handle.
The people are climbing the wall at many places, because it is too low. Very close to Felipe Boscos house at Calle Sanchez there is even a small path leading to the wall and here they put a big stone and everybody can walk right over and into Costambar. Nobody is doing anything to avoid actions like this. And this is just an example; there are too many “entrances” into Costambar for people, who want to avoid a gate with security!

Money is collected to fix the streets. This is off course very much appreciated and very nice. However, if Security is one of the most important issues for many residents, I just don’t understand why no collection is done to build a decent wall ?

Suzzane:

We both know that dreaming about things to do is what keeps us going when much of the sober evidence says your just wasting your time. That's just being human.

I had costed this out several years ago and the services we now provide have improved, so the potential service is close to being "as good as it gets". The only thing missing is getting the co-operation of more people. The alarms can be monitered in the APC office during regular working hours with no increase in manpower and we would have to hire someone to moniter at night, as a part of the security staff. That would not only allow for monitering but provide one extra person for backup to an alarm.

Once it has been determined that the alarm is warning of an illegal entry, our guards secure the site, and call the police. Thanks to Sandro we have the police in here a great deal of the time, and because of improvements in the National Police management and schedualing of patrols the same people are in the immediate area of Costambar. They have detailed knowledge of our miscreants and the power to arrest them if they are "found committing".

There are at least three other people near us that have these alarms, so possibly we could poll the community to get a sufficient number of clients to approach the alarm company, who as you point out speaks English and worked in the US for many years installing alarms. We make it as a "group offer for services". You aren't going to get better service in New York or Toronto, and since we administer our own community we have some advantages and naturally some of the disadvantages that each of us are aware of. Once the alarms are installed there is no need for people to do anything but pay their dues and receive the service.

The abuse I received when I suggested this same idea several years ago still rings in my ears, and it was from a number of people whose reaction, given their own vulnarability, that stunned me at the time. Maybe we've moved on and can make the suggestion again. I'm game.

Let's talk about an alarm system. I have the same system Don has, and the gentleman who installed it and comes out to help with problems is a knowledgable approachable Dominican who speaks English. The alarm is not expensive to install. What has always been lacking is a "Central place' where it could ring and which would then alert the guards of Costambar. If enough of us had such an alarm we could hire a person to serve that function, maybe someone who has a business already and wanted to make some extra money, or maybe in time someone might even be willing to start an alarm company. I always thought the cable company would well be able to fulfill that function. Dreaming again :-)

Mark I was hoping people would rally in some way, but as we both know many are only intersted in finding fault, which isn't hard - there's plenty to find, rather than making positive statement and actions. Those who refuse to pay are not only causing damage to their own interests but stealing from those who do pay to provide the services that effect us all.

I was approached by a person yesterday who decided to give me his opinion and stated that the reason he won't pay is that the street light is out in front of his house and he didn't like the wording of a letter the President set out on rate changes. I told him I was not connected in any way with the Board, but that sure didn't stop him. I then asked if he had reported the light being out since the office closes in daytime and the workers have gone home by the time its dark. Naturally he said "no". but was unmoved. He just doesn't want to pay and will find any excuse not to.

Well Don you've answered all my concerns, which I am pleased about. As I hope you realised I was sort of playing Devils' Advocate there.

The one issue I don't think we can dismiss is cost. You, I know, are painfully aware how difficult it is to get people in Costambar to pay their share. That is ulitmately what this thread is about - motivating non-paying residents & businesses in Costambar to contribute to the community through paying APC fees.

If there is another way to get people to WANT to pay I'll be only too glad to hear it, as I suspect would you & the whole Board!

We have had an alarm system for 15 years and the only reason I switched servers was that the first service provider sold the company.
(a)The system I have is not effected by weather.
(b) It has a battery backup so that the electricity being out isn't an issue.
(c) The company that provides my service is there if I think I have a problem and he knows how to fix it. There are good service providers here unless you have made up your mind there aren't.
(d) If someone cuts the tlephones lines there is a "screamer" that goes off and alterts half of Costambasr. Then we can fall back on our numbered houses "Amigos de Costambar" and neighbours who call secuirty and check the properety, which both Claudia and have done for at least 10 years.

I believe most people want great service but have no intention of paying anything. I know that is cynical but I've grown to believe we are not positive enough to make our community a place that everyone wants to live in.

Don

I'm very aware of monitored alarm systems, they are prevalent in the Y(UK), Europe & North America - in fact I sold such systems for a while in one of my many past lives. They can be superb for improving home security & safety - people often forget that they can be used to watch for fire & medical emergencies too. However I have some reservations as to whether they are a solution for the unique problems here in Costambar. Aside from the cost considerations one has to consider the following.

1/ Power - they are electrical - enough said!

2/ Environment - we live in a very corrosive environment here & that adversely effects delicate electronic equipment & leads to increased ....

3/ Maintenance - Dominican maintenance is akin to "military intelligence" & I'm not being totally flippant.

4/ Communications - these systems usually use the telephone system, which is decidedly "third world" in my experience.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea but I worry about the practicalities. Oh, & you have to get people to work together - in Costambar ...

Your suggestion is a good one Mark. Since polls we have taken, and general consensus seems to be that secuirty is the number one priority. Since Sandro Fallo took personal day to day charge of Security, and now Jack Cameron is getting on board, we excellent secuirty. That is one of those management functions that is never fixed once and for all. Just when you think it can't be inproved on something goes wrong. Murphy's Law.

Let me outline a suggestion that was made a few years ago that unexpectedly, for me at least, drew a lot of rancour and abuse. The suggestion was that we install alarm systems, such as I have or Suzzane has. If there were a sufficient number, say 500, we could have staff in the office to moniter them 24/7 and give an immediate response. With that size of an order we might reasonably expect some sort of discount from the supplier.

The attacks on the idea was that someone was going to make money on it. I don't even think of that as an objection provided the company stands behind its installations, and nobody on the Board or a member of APC takes a commission or some other benefit. A security alarms service provider is entitled to make money. Does this strike you as unreasonable?

Hi Suzanne

The placas are popping up all over town which is nice to see!

Otherwise things are quiet over here. I've not heard of any crimes lately - apart from the attempted dog murder mentioned elsewhere.

Costambar is asleep as what looks like a hot summer is upon us.

Excellent idea Mark and it has been mentionned before, however I think that in order for this to work the calls to the gate probably should go thru one person designated to take calls who can then check the list. For instance I have an alarm at home before it rings at the Police station it goes thru the alarm company who checks it out.
I do not have a placa since I am not in Costambar at the moment I guess I should send my watchman or maid to pick one up for me. I will call them and the Costambar office.
How's things????

Right, this is gonna be a long & potentially controversial posting so pay attention ...

Throughout my working life in sales I always remembered why people bought goods or service. There are ONLY two reasons -

To gain a benefit
To avoid a loss

Simple really isn't it?

Now APC have a problem collecting fees from certain people. They provide a range of services, some of which are more visible than others - streetlights, lot cleaning, road maintenance & security are the ones that spring immediately to mind. Of these security is probably the most visible & the reason many people decided to stay in Costambar.

Everybody should by now know about the "Amigos de Costambar" placas designed to improve response times for those who display them. If you ring the gate & give them the number the staff will know where you are & respond quickly & efficiently. Obviously not everybody who pays APC has a placa - we don't at home for reasons I've outlined elsewhere - but APC DO know who has paid their fees.

Here's the contentious bit ...

I propose the gate guards have a master list of all paying properties. If somebody calls & doesn't appear on the list they should give them the phone number of the police & hang up.

APC Security is a private security service, paid for by APC fee payers. These are the ONLY PEOPLE entitled to receive a personal response from the APC Security staff. EVERYBODY ELSE should be denied that service.

Forget about restricting access to non-payers. That is not logistically possible & legally dubious. As I said at the beginning, people buy services to avoid a loss. Maybe loss of free security will encourage them to contribute to the community.

Discuss.